SSBU/Ken/Matchups

This page includes write ups and various other notes from Shotocord. This will include matchup notes geared towards Ken and Ryu. The names of who wrote the matchup write up will be listed.

Aegis (Pyra/Mythra)
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Pyra
From Jahzz0:

I think Pyra is easy to fight, one of the easiest to parry in the game, one of the easiest sword characters to call out in neutral, she’s basically boiled down to knowing she wants that Side B. They go for grabs a lot to patten the neutral monotony, so be spotdodge those dash ins, because even if they do a tilt, it’ll cover the grab and tilt option at that time. If she’s holding ledge and using Up B, respond with an Up B of your own, Ryu can do it too, but with a lesser result. When she throws Side B and whiffs she’s either gonna roll or jump, keep in mind where she is on stage, because normally when she does throw it, she’s likely underneath a platform to mix her movement. Just keep that in mind.

Mythra
From Jahzz0:

If you are playing Ken and dealing with an oppressive Mythra, it will not kill you to dash bait. Dash back to call out DA or run up grab. Punish with, and do not overextend your combo, because she will foresight you. It’s very hard to call out the air dodge, especially considering that Ken’s air drift isn’t good once you’re airborne, but once you get the, keep it simple with going for or. I started doing that with a lot more MUs like Steve because he has a fast aerial combo breaking neutral air, I do it for Mythra because of foresight.

Banjo & Kazooie
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From Bean!:

Neutral
The key to this matchup is patience, and being able to weave around his projectiles to get behind him and really start dealing damage. Banjo has 2 projectiles: Down B and neutral B, both of which are decently fast and annoying to get hit by, which may coerce you into jumping in. These projectiles set up traps that Banjo can use to shield break you, deal around 55 percent if he hits, or if you run away, reset neutral. TL;DR: Banjo’s projectiles control the flow of the game, and try to mix up how you deal with them.

Banjo’s neutral consists of a few things. Grenade Spam, Egg spam, and using FAir and other chunky moves to whack you for approaching at all. What you’re gonna want to do is FADC over his wall of projectiles if he is trying to wall you out, and to NEVER SHIELD HIS BOMBS. They combo right into FAir and if you keep holding shield its gonna get popped. Play it safe, play it patient, and approach with extreme caution.

Dealing With WonderWing: Its annoying, its huge, and its invincible. Wonderwing is an extremely volatile kill move, it 2 frames us very well, if Banjo does it to ledge and doesn’t instantly grab ledge consider your stock erased, and he can confirm into it. You can shield it and try to get a glimpse of the Banjo’s cover option afterward, since they usually chuck out an option to counter faulty punishes. Or you can try to focus 3 tank it and get a Real Mans Punish but that requires an ultra hard read so stick with shield or hop over it for a grab or cute little BnB.

Advantage
Killing Banjo isn’t rocket science, but most likely you’re only gonna be able to get a sliding tilt or aerial in on him when he doesn’t expect it. I recommend Ken HIGHLY for this matchup, since you can go full unga bunga without having to care much since Shoryu kills him so early. The way you’re gonna work around his projectiles to get said kill is like the Samus MU. His projectiles have a small amount of endlag, so you’ll be able to punish them hard if you catch him in his endlag frames. I recommend sliding under him and doing a TSRK if he tries to do full hop grenade. Reasoning for this is because if he does grenade, he’s holding the control stick straight down, which means that he’s gonna get shot right up and die pretty easily.

Since he’s of decent weight, I recommend keeping strands to a decent length, straying from fancy aerial extensions and sticking to that closer more simplified ken. Best strand to use here = PJab xx CK > RH. A couple of these or trying for an uptilt PJab xx CK > DAir at ledge will secure you the stock. TL;DR: Keep it simple, keep it safe, don’t be a donut and NAir in.

Ledge Trapping Banjo This is where Ken really gets to shine. Once Banjo is at ledge he’s most likely gonna do drop ledge grenade to get back on stage. Stay 1.5 roll distance away, throw out hado, and if they jump its money for the taking.

Disadvantage
How to climb out of Disadvantage Against Banjo You’re not. But in all seriousness, its veeeery difficult since this bear holds onto the stage tighter than Winnie the Pooh with a honey jar. Try your hardest to keep stage control, keep steady damage, and don’t get angsty or greedy, otherwise you can kiss your stocks bye bye.

Bayonetta
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Matchup notes from Bill Bill Bill:


 * Ken tatsu can condition Bayo by making her use witch time or jab (both of which are frame 8 and 9 respectively). You can condition her to shield, jump, or attempt to attack, which you can all avoid and punish. Remember though, Ken tatsu is pretty bad, and since she's slim and light, she can easily fall out of it.
 * Fireballs can be low profiled with her side b. Ryu will need to think of how to use his fireballs.
 * Ken struggles here a bit with combos as most of his strings are very untrue, and Bayo has a frame 1 air dodge. Ryu too, a bit, since her hurtbox is slim and she changes positions a lot during hitstun.
 * Ryu might have a better time recovering with tatsu, since both his legs have intangibility instead of Ken having just one. Plus, the hitboxes are slightly bigger and launch Bayo far enough to make her unable to punish Ryu.
 * Ken has a better anti air with his DP, but Bayo doesn't really approach in the air, unless it's with aerial side b angled down. The only way you'd punish that OOS is with a parry, since she bounces off your shield and pretty far, too. Force her to be in the air.
 * Her edge guarding game is pretty good, too. NAir is deceptively good against us. It's big, lasts long, and can make us lose our jumps. Be careful with that.

Belmonts (Simon & Richter)
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From ImBad:

Neutral
Getting in on the Belmonts is going to be somewhat difficult due to our lower air and ground speed. We need to be able to make the most out of the openings we do get. I would recommend Ken for this reason, but Ryu can somewhat counter zone. Belmonts are on the heavy end weighing in at 107 units. Keep this in mind when going for kill confirms.

Belmonts neutral will consist mostly of FTilts(dash back or otherwise), FAir/BAir, and cross. These aren’t safe on shield per say being -6 to -8 depending on what move it is, but spaced well they are nearly impossible for us to punish on shield. FTilt will also eat through hado and has a trample effect so using tatsu to beat it isn’t reliable. RESIST THE URGE TO JUMP/RUN STRAIGHT AT THE BELMONT AFTER THEY HIT YOUR SHIELD WITH AN FTILT there is more than likely another one coming. When you finally close the gap to the point they shield watch out for upb oos its frame 6 and has intangibility on frames 5-6 (poor man's shoryuken).

Advantage
Lucky for us Belmonts are very susceptible to our combos. For Ken CK > DSmash will work. If you have a Belmont above you in juggle watch for them to do DAir. It has a poor hitbox and will be beaten out by HUTilt. The Belmonts frame data is bad so we can abuse that if they try mashing after being hit. If they are off stage all you have to do is intercept their recovery with NAir and they most likely wont make it back. When they are on ledge watch for ledge drop FAir or jump FAir. Both will hit us.

Disadvantage
Belmonts are going to look to put you in tech chase situations at low % by using FTilt(this starts at 0). They can cover multiple get up options with cross at one time. You need to mix up what you do here to avoid eating cross. If you roll in they can holy water you which will set us up to take 50% from falling UAir shenanigans. UAir is decent for keeping us in the air due to our lower air speed. It is possible to focus through UAir, FAir, and BAir. However, keep an eye out for crosses or axes. Belmonts have crazy ledge trapping and can force you off the ledge with many things.

Bowser
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Matchup notes by ICE | Torricane:

Bowser's armor is only broken if a single hitbox is stronger than the threshold, multiple hits won't break it even if delivered on the same frame. Damage-based Armor Compendium: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HZgiCY0ee7C8-yPBLo2rZVu4cZdMx_VauNafxZW3zDw/edit#gid=0 < Main doc
 * Every move Bowser can Armor in Ryu/Ken's kit

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HZgiCY0ee7C8-yPBLo2rZVu4cZdMx_VauNafxZW3zDw/edit#gid=1762814975 Ryu

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HZgiCY0ee7C8-yPBLo2rZVu4cZdMx_VauNafxZW3zDw/edit#gid=1711360161 Ken

Other notes by TeX:

Neutral
Neutral against Bowser will consist of long range harassment with Hadoken and Close range baiting. Things he will fish for are Up special and his command grab side special since they are his fastest grounded options our of shield and out of frame traps. Try to catch full hops, if a Bowser can full hop he has access to forward aerial, which is a strong neutral tool if spaced correctly. Like usual, it is a bad idea to mindlessly full hop in neutral or use a double jump to approach as Bowser has many moves to snuff aerial approaches.

USmash, DAir, and BAir break focus armor.

Disadvantage
Bowser has a good advantage state and you really have to look out for FAir to cover jumps and being careful about shielding because of their grabs. Bowser really wants to scare you into shielding or jumping in disadvantage so they can either grab you or hit you with FAir/BAir/Side B for the the kill. Your best option as Ken is to either back dash, mix up roll but just don't jump. Some risky but potential reversals are Tatsu or Shoryu; I would prefer the light shoryu as it could result in a bait and you could get a heavy off in time however generally you don't want to whiff tatsu. Every person is different and may bait some of these options but these are possible options that will help you out in disadvantage versus Bowser.

Out of Shield
The best thing to do if you think A Bowser player will up special when you hit their shield is to empty hop shield, special cancel Tatsumaki to reset neutral or try to run up grab.

Tatsumaki will be the safest as it resets neutral and you can get a punish if they go towards you. The other two options are very risky, especially at high percentage because of side special. It's a rock, paper scissors game of Shield, Grab or Spot dodge. Shield the up special, spot dodge the command grab or grab them before they up special.

Shield Pressure
Up tilt and down tilt with clank with both Whirling fortress and flying slam's command grab. Depending on whether you think they will jump OoS should determine which you go for. Both clanks will leave you in a frame advantage state for a few frames. Do not use Nata Otoshi Geri on shield, you will either get command grabbed or up special'd OoS. Even though is is technically frame plus for the command grab and will either beat or clank with it if buffered it's a 50/50 between shielding the up special or trying to beat the command grab. So you CAN use NOG on shield however it is very risky.

Advantage
generally Bowser's disadvantage is very bad outside of a frame 6 command grab however it will be easy to bait. He has up B, side B, jab and the regular defensive options that everyone else has. He's very easy to abuse since he only has 3 extremely effective yet easy to punish/bait options in disadvantage. Bait up b with shield out of a frame trap, side b with spot dodge and jab can be baited by just expecting it and getting creative. Be weary that nair breaks focus and they like to dair in juggle situations

Ledge Trapping
Do not stand near the ledge or you can get hit by drop off, jump up side B, nair, fair or if you're close enough, up air. If you are too close while they are recovering they can hit you with overshoot up B and still snap to the ledge. Stand about roll distance away walking in and out of their get up attack range which is 30 units (about Ken's ledge roll). Don't challenge jump from ledge with fair, try either catching it with short hop up air or catching their landing with a grab to throw them back to the ledge. Try to bait get up attack since bowsers are confident in it.

Offstage
Snip them with hadoken if you can. If you can get them to recover at about a 45 degree angle to the ledge you can drop down back air them. Other than that, stick too ledge trapping and ledge trumping.

As for us offstage it boils down to high or low since fair offstage unless you save your jump or they hit a focus attack air stall, it will kill you. Recover as low as you can and scrape the stage so you don't get hit by suicide dair. You'll trade and then you'll die. Try focus attack stall offstage and save your jump if you think the fair is going to happen immediately.

Bowser Jr.
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Matchup notes from RoyKoopa:
 * Cart armor only tanks moves that do 6%
 * Hadoken beats Jr Side B
 * Tatsu goes over mechakoopa
 * Jr struggles to get in vs Ryu
 * Rare matchup where going to Battlefield might be the play

Byleth
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Matchup notes from Lernonad:
 * Try to air to air FAir and BAir as Byleth can only combo off of it when delaying the aerial to land with it
 * Byleth's aerials are unsafe against shotos when unspaced
 * NAir is Byleth's main get off me option
 * It is unsafe on block but it hard to punish due to being a multihit

Matchup notes from Kusu:
 * Be careful in disadvantage due to UAir being a multihit
 * Aerial rushes are not recommended as Byleth can just space out FAir or BAir or use Side B when they read an attempt to approach from the air
 * Mixup recovery to avoid Neutral B snipes
 * Try walking to move in and out of range of DTilt

Captain Falcon
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Raptor Boost Armor Compendium from ICE | Torricane:
 * https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Kw--b0JY1FA_h9f1fFSwuO-98T3LaaD0b68q3vfCRSU/edit#gid=0
 * https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Kw--b0JY1FA_h9f1fFSwuO-98T3LaaD0b68q3vfCRSU/edit#gid=1762814975 Ryu
 * https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Kw--b0JY1FA_h9f1fFSwuO-98T3LaaD0b68q3vfCRSU/edit#gid=1711360161 Ken

Recovering against Falcon
 * AHero: Tatsu is a last resort mixup option. Try using Focus to recover more. Falcons often attempt to go low and use their Up B to grab us offstage. With significant timing mixups, you can avoid it and potentially send them careening to their deaths.
 * Bill Bill Bill: If you're somewhat close to ledge, you can fair and maybe catch them with it and prevent a knee/some other move. Then you can recover with jump/shoryu.
 * SHORYUKEN: Hado hover ain’t bad either.

https://twitter.com/realHARTHUR/status/1400851215295057925?s=20

Chrom
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Cloud
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Corrin
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Diddy Kong
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Donkey Kong
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Dr. Mario
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Duck Hunt
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Falco
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Fox
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Ganondorf
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Greninja
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Hero
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Ice Climbers
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Ike
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From Lernonad:

Neutral
Because of Ike's range, releasing shield trying to parry and doing tilts can easily be countered by out spacing us then using dtilt which can combo and kill confirm, so try parrying with caution. The only other option that is good is anti-airing, or because of his range, air-to-airing. You can do so with both Ken and Ryu by doing full hop immediate nair, fair, or short hop buffered uair, which then you can combo off of. If he sees that you are consistently going for full hop air-to-airs he will start doing short hop reverse up air, which you can just beat by doing short hop buffered aerial then combo or by doing a grounded anti-air. To do this you have to jump at the same time Ike does. You can practice by turning the CPU to jump in training mode. Or, if you have the training mod pack, set the CPU to do falling NAir. You should mostly be doing these in neutral. If you get caught in shield you gotta mixup what you do. You can parry and do a tilt but it might not reach. Releasing shield into tilt will not work, so keep in mind that you can also jump OOS or after a parry and do an aerial.

Advantage
When juggling Ike he can double jump out or air dodge through. He might also try using side b to try and go to ledge. When going to ledge Ike can do side b to recover high and get to center stage or use up b to get to ledge. To counter side b you can do bair to hit him or hado to force him to go lower. If you hit him out of side b then he is forced to go to ledge with up b. To counter up b you have to throw a hitbox when Ike throws his sword. By the time Ike rises the hitbox will be out. Dsmash is easiest to counter up b. When Ike is at ledge there aren't a lot of Ike specific mixups. I've only seen drop off double jump side b. Be careful when attacking his shield since his up b has armor and has good knockback to kill at around 100%. Shotos can counter with doing a tilt string canceled to focus to tank the Up B then dash cancel out of the way and punish. If he doesn't Up B then dash cancel away before he reacts and grabs.

Disadvantage
If you are being juggled you can jump out as Ike is about to uair, then you have to fast fall neutral air dodge to get past up air again and get below Ike. If you do get below Ike via this then you can get a chance to hit him as he lands, but shotos add another option of FADC. It works the same as air dodge most of the time. If you're going to ledge from below Ike has DAir and eruption. Once on ledge NAir, DTilt, and DSmash can hit shoto's ledge hang. If he is spamming NAir then aair-to-air with a ledge jump aerial. Its the same timing from ledge as it is anywhere else.

Incineroar
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Inkling
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Isabelle
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Jigglypuff
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Joker
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Kazuya
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Ken
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King K. Rool
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King Dedede
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Kirby
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Link
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Little Mac
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Lucario
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Lucas
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Luigi
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Marcina (Marth & Lucina)
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Mario
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Mega Man
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Meta Knight
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Mewtwo
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Mii Brawler
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Mii Gunner
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Mii Swordfighter
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Min Min
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Mr. Game & Watch
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Ness
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Olimar
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Pac-Man
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Palutena
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Peach
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Pichu
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Pikachu
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Piranha Plant
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Pit
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Pokemon Trainer
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Ridley
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R.O.B.
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Robin
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Rosalina & Luma
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Roy
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Ryu
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Samus
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Sephiroth
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Sheik
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Shulk
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Snake
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Sonic
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Sora
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Steve
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Terry
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Toon Link
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Villager
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Wario
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Wii Fit Trainer
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Wolf
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Yoshi
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Young Link
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Zelda
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Zero Suit Samus
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