SSBU/Ken/Matchups

This page includes write ups and various other notes from Shotocord. This will include matchup notes geared towards Ken and Ryu. The names of who wrote the matchup write up will be listed.

It is suggested that you go to the Advantage page to see character exceptions for combos, and to the Strategy page to find the shield break strings for each character.

Aegis (Pyra/Mythra)
To the top of the page

Pyra
From Jahzz0:

I think Pyra is easy to fight, one of the easiest to parry in the game, one of the easiest sword characters to call out in neutral, she’s basically boiled down to knowing she wants that Side B. They go for grabs a lot to patten the neutral monotony, so be spotdodge those dash ins, because even if they do a tilt, it’ll cover the grab and tilt option at that time. If she’s holding ledge and using Up B, respond with an Up B of your own, Ryu can do it too, but with a lesser result. When she throws Side B and whiffs she’s either gonna roll or jump, keep in mind where she is on stage, because normally when she does throw it, she’s likely underneath a platform to mix her movement. Just keep that in mind.

Mythra
From Jahzz0:

If you are playing Ken and dealing with an oppressive Mythra, it will not kill you to dash bait. Dash back to call out DA or run up grab. Punish with, and do not overextend your combo, because she will foresight you. It’s very hard to call out the air dodge, especially considering that Ken’s air drift isn’t good once you’re airborne, but once you get the, keep it simple with going for or. I started doing that with a lot more MUs like Steve because he has a fast aerial combo breaking neutral air, I do it for Mythra because of foresight.

Banjo & Kazooie
To the top of the page

From Bean!:

Neutral
The key to this matchup is patience, and being able to weave around his projectiles to get behind him and really start dealing damage. Banjo has 2 projectiles: Down B and neutral B, both of which are decently fast and annoying to get hit by, which may coerce you into jumping in. These projectiles set up traps that Banjo can use to shield break you, deal around 55 percent if he hits, or if you run away, reset neutral. TL;DR: Banjo’s projectiles control the flow of the game, and try to mix up how you deal with them.

Banjo’s neutral consists of a few things. Grenade Spam, Egg spam, and using FAir and other chunky moves to whack you for approaching at all. What you’re gonna want to do is over his wall of projectiles if he is trying to wall you out, and to NEVER SHIELD HIS BOMBS. They combo right into FAir and if you keep holding shield its gonna get popped. Play it safe, play it patient, and approach with extreme caution.

Dealing With WonderWing: Its annoying, its huge, and its invincible. Wonderwing is an extremely volatile kill move, it 2 frames us very well, if Banjo does it to ledge and doesn’t instantly grab ledge consider your stock erased, and he can confirm into it. You can shield it and try to get a glimpse of the Banjo’s cover option afterward, since they usually chuck out an option to counter faulty punishes. Or you can try to tank it and get a Real Mans Punish but that requires an ultra hard read so stick with shield or hop over it for a  or cute little BnB.

Advantage
Killing Banjo isn’t rocket science, but most likely you’re only gonna be able to get a sliding tilt or aerial in on him when he doesn’t expect it. I recommend Ken HIGHLY for this matchup, since you can go full unga bunga without having to care much since kills him so early. The way you’re gonna work around his projectiles to get said kill is like the Samus MU. His projectiles have a small amount of endlag, so you’ll be able to punish them hard if you catch him in his endlag frames. I recommend sliding under him and doing a if he tries to do full hop grenade. Reasoning for this is because if he does grenade, he’s holding the control stick straight down, which means that he’s gonna get shot right up and die pretty easily.

Since he’s of decent weight, I recommend keeping strands to a decent length, straying from fancy aerial extensions and sticking to that closer more simplified ken. Best strand to use here is xx  >. A couple of these or trying for an >  xx  >  at ledge will secure you the stock. TL;DR: Keep it simple, keep it safe, don’t be a donut and in.

Ledge Trapping Banjo This is where Ken really gets to shine. Once Banjo is at ledge he’s most likely gonna do drop ledge grenade to get back on stage. Stay 1.5 roll distance away, throw out, and if they jump its money for the taking.

Disadvantage
How to climb out of Disadvantage Against Banjo You’re not. But in all seriousness, its veeeery difficult since this bear holds onto the stage tighter than Winnie the Pooh with a honey jar. Try your hardest to keep stage control, keep steady damage, and don’t get angsty or greedy, otherwise you can kiss your stocks bye bye.

Bayonetta
To the top of the page

Matchup notes from Bill Bill Bill:


 * Ken can condition Bayo by making her use witch time since her Jab is frame 9 and cannot punish . You can condition her to shield, jump, or attempt to attack, which you can all avoid and punish. Remember though, Ken  is pretty bad, and since she's slim and light, she can easily fall out of it.
 * can be low profiled with her Side B. Ryu will need to think of how to use his.
 * Ken struggles here a bit with combos as most of his strings are very untrue, and Bayo has a frame 1 air dodge. Ryu too, a bit, since her hurtbox is slim and she changes positions a lot during hitstun.
 * Ryu might have a better time recovering with, since both his legs have intangibility instead of Ken having just one. Plus, the hitboxes are slightly bigger and launch Bayo far enough to make her unable to punish Ryu.
 * Ken has a better anti air with his DP, but Bayo doesn't really approach in the air, unless it's with aerial side b angled down. The only way you'd punish that OOS is with a parry, since she bounces off your shield and pretty far, too. Force her to be in the air.
 * Her edge guarding game is pretty good, too. is deceptively good against us. It's big, lasts long, and can make us lose our jumps. Be careful with that.

Belmonts (Simon & Richter)
To the top of the page

From ImBad:

Neutral
Getting in on the Belmonts is going to be somewhat difficult due to our lower air and ground speed. We need to be able to make the most out of the openings we do get. I would recommend Ken for this reason, but Ryu can somewhat counter zone. Belmonts are on the heavy end weighing in at 107 units. Keep this in mind when going for kill confirms.

Belmonts neutral will consist mostly of FTilts(dash back or otherwise), FAir/BAir, and cross. These aren’t safe on shield per say being -6 to -8 depending on what move it is, but spaced well they are nearly impossible for us to punish on shield. FTilt will also eat through hado and has a trample effect so using tatsu to beat it isn’t reliable. RESIST THE URGE TO JUMP/RUN STRAIGHT AT THE BELMONT AFTER THEY HIT YOUR SHIELD WITH AN FTILT there is more than likely another one coming. When you finally close the gap to the point they shield watch out for upb oos its frame 6 and has intangibility on frames 5-6 (poor man's shoryuken).

Advantage
Lucky for us Belmonts are very susceptible to our combos. For Ken CK > DSmash will work. If you have a Belmont above you in juggle watch for them to do DAir. It has a poor hitbox and will be beaten out by HUTilt. The Belmonts frame data is bad so we can abuse that if they try mashing after being hit. If they are off stage all you have to do is intercept their recovery with NAir and they most likely wont make it back. When they are on ledge watch for ledge drop FAir or jump FAir. Both will hit us.

Disadvantage
Belmonts are going to look to put you in tech chase situations at low % by using FTilt(this starts at 0). They can cover multiple get up options with cross at one time. You need to mix up what you do here to avoid eating cross. If you roll in they can holy water you which will set us up to take 50% from falling UAir shenanigans. UAir is decent for keeping us in the air due to our lower air speed. It is possible to focus through UAir, FAir, and BAir. However, keep an eye out for crosses or axes. Belmonts have crazy ledge trapping and can force you off the ledge with many things.

Bowser
To the top of the page

Matchup notes by ICE | Torricane:

Bowser's armor is only broken if a single hitbox is stronger than the threshold, multiple hits won't break it even if delivered on the same frame. Damage-based Armor Compendium: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HZgiCY0ee7C8-yPBLo2rZVu4cZdMx_VauNafxZW3zDw/edit#gid=0 < Main doc
 * Every move Bowser can Armor in Ryu/Ken's kit

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HZgiCY0ee7C8-yPBLo2rZVu4cZdMx_VauNafxZW3zDw/edit#gid=1762814975 Ryu

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HZgiCY0ee7C8-yPBLo2rZVu4cZdMx_VauNafxZW3zDw/edit#gid=1711360161 Ken

Other notes by TeX:

Neutral
Neutral against Bowser will consist of long range harassment with Hadoken and Close range baiting. Things he will fish for are Up special and his command grab side special since they are his fastest grounded options our of shield and out of frame traps. Try to catch full hops, if a Bowser can full hop he has access to forward aerial, which is a strong neutral tool if spaced correctly. Like usual, it is a bad idea to mindlessly full hop in neutral or use a double jump to approach as Bowser has many moves to snuff aerial approaches.

USmash, DAir, and BAir break focus armor.

Disadvantage
Bowser has a good advantage state and you really have to look out for FAir to cover jumps and being careful about shielding because of their grabs. Bowser really wants to scare you into shielding or jumping in disadvantage so they can either grab you or hit you with FAir/BAir/Side B for the the kill. Your best option as Ken is to either back dash, mix up roll but just don't jump. Some risky but potential reversals are Tatsu or Shoryu; I would prefer the light shoryu as it could result in a bait and you could get a heavy off in time however generally you don't want to whiff tatsu. Every person is different and may bait some of these options but these are possible options that will help you out in disadvantage versus Bowser.

Out of Shield
The best thing to do if you think A Bowser player will up special when you hit their shield is to empty hop shield, special cancel Tatsumaki to reset neutral or try to run up grab.

Tatsumaki will be the safest as it resets neutral and you can get a punish if they go towards you. The other two options are very risky, especially at high percentage because of side special. It's a rock, paper scissors game of Shield, Grab or Spot dodge. Shield the up special, spot dodge the command grab or grab them before they up special.

Shield Pressure
Up tilt and down tilt with clank with both Whirling fortress and flying slam's command grab. Depending on whether you think they will jump OoS should determine which you go for. Both clanks will leave you in a frame advantage state for a few frames. Do not use Nata Otoshi Geri on shield, you will either get command grabbed or up special'd OoS. Even though is is technically frame plus for the command grab and will either beat or clank with it if buffered it's a 50/50 between shielding the up special or trying to beat the command grab. So you CAN use NOG on shield however it is very risky.

Advantage
generally Bowser's disadvantage is very bad outside of a frame 6 command grab however it will be easy to bait. He has up B, side B, jab and the regular defensive options that everyone else has. He's very easy to abuse since he only has 3 extremely effective yet easy to punish/bait options in disadvantage. Bait up b with shield out of a frame trap, side b with spot dodge and jab can be baited by just expecting it and getting creative. Be weary that nair breaks focus and they like to dair in juggle situations

Ledge Trapping
Do not stand near the ledge or you can get hit by drop off, jump up side B, nair, fair or if you're close enough, up air. If you are too close while they are recovering they can hit you with overshoot up B and still snap to the ledge. Stand about roll distance away walking in and out of their get up attack range which is 30 units (about Ken's ledge roll). Don't challenge jump from ledge with fair, try either catching it with short hop up air or catching their landing with a grab to throw them back to the ledge. Try to bait get up attack since bowsers are confident in it.

Offstage
Snip them with hadoken if you can. If you can get them to recover at about a 45 degree angle to the ledge you can drop down back air them. Other than that, stick too ledge trapping and ledge trumping.

As for us offstage it boils down to high or low since fair offstage unless you save your jump or they hit a focus attack air stall, it will kill you. Recover as low as you can and scrape the stage so you don't get hit by suicide dair. You'll trade and then you'll die. Try focus attack stall offstage and save your jump if you think the fair is going to happen immediately.

Bowser Jr.
To the top of the page

Matchup notes from RoyKoopa:
 * Cart armor only tanks moves that do 6%
 * Hadoken beats Jr Side B
 * Tatsu goes over mechakoopa
 * Jr struggles to get in vs Ryu
 * Rare matchup where going to Battlefield might be the play

Byleth
To the top of the page

Matchup notes from Lernonad:
 * Try to air to air FAir and BAir as Byleth can only combo off of it when delaying the aerial to land with it
 * Byleth's aerials are unsafe against shotos when unspaced
 * NAir is Byleth's main get off me option
 * It is unsafe on block but it hard to punish due to being a multihit

Matchup notes from Kusu:
 * Be careful in disadvantage due to UAir being a multihit
 * Aerial rushes are not recommended as Byleth can just space out FAir or BAir or use Side B when they read an attempt to approach from the air
 * Mixup recovery to avoid Neutral B snipes
 * Try walking to move in and out of range of DTilt

Captain Falcon
To the top of the page

Raptor Boost Armor Compendium from ICE | Torricane:
 * https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Kw--b0JY1FA_h9f1fFSwuO-98T3LaaD0b68q3vfCRSU/edit#gid=0
 * https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Kw--b0JY1FA_h9f1fFSwuO-98T3LaaD0b68q3vfCRSU/edit#gid=1762814975 Ryu
 * https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Kw--b0JY1FA_h9f1fFSwuO-98T3LaaD0b68q3vfCRSU/edit#gid=1711360161 Ken

Recovering against Falcon
 * AHero: Tatsu is a last resort mixup option. Try using Focus to recover more. Falcons often attempt to go low and use their Up B to grab us offstage. With significant timing mixups, you can avoid it and potentially send them careening to their deaths.
 * Bill Bill Bill: If you're somewhat close to ledge, you can fair and maybe catch them with it and prevent a knee/some other move. Then you can recover with jump/shoryu.
 * SHORYUKEN: Hado hover ain’t bad either.

https://twitter.com/realHARTHUR/status/1400851215295057925?s=20

Chrom
To the top of the page

You can cancel tilts into to tank Up B OOS. Then, dash cancel away to not get hit by the landing hit.

Cloud
To the top of the page

From mo!:

If Cloud approaches: Cloud likes to shorthop a hell of a lot most of the time. The easiest way to avoid getting hit by this is to shield (or parry, even better) and follow up with a tilt, then wham on 'em. Be careful, don't wail on him too much because of Up B (frame 7). Stay grounded. you don't wanna get juggled against cloud it is NOT fun for Shotos.

Ledgetrapping is extremely useful in this MU since Cloud's recovery is not the best. If you time it exactly right, you can hit Up B with from below. is also useful but more risky. If you're gonna go offstage, wait until he jumps and then use or. If Cloud goes low try offstage.

If Cloud doesn't approach: Clouds like to spam Neutral B at the start of the match so they can bully you into approaching. You can use to stop the projectiles. You could also jump past the lasers but this puts you at risk of a counterattack. Defensive clouds might abuse Climhazzard OOS too. Roll and counterattack accordingly.

Which Shoto should I use? In my honest opinion you should pick Ryu for this one since his neutral game is better. You can shield poke with shaku and have a better time staying grounded and have stage control.

Corrin
To the top of the page

If you get caught in the charge hitbox, you can use to tank the FSmash when they release it, but it is still not the best as it does not tank a full charged sour spot FSmash on frame 1. But even then, you still take half damage and slightly less knockback. Bill Bill Bill also says that Ryu's clanks with the sweet spot of FSmash.

Diddy Kong
To the top of the page

From Notorious:

Ok so I played with a Diddy Kong for a while and idk if this will be useful information, however, I feel that Ryu is best for this MU. You can grab banana and hold on to it and still use both Shaku/Hado just be aware that if you press A you will throw banana so you'll need to use B to throw projectiles. When banana is in your hand you are unfortunately limited to your moves as you cannot use tilts (if you do you'll throw the banana). The Diddy Kong will be pressured to chase you down as they need banana for their combos so this is where you have to be smart with your projectile use. If you see an opportunity to do so you can use banana to extend a combo or start one but you will lose banana and have to start over. Depending on the type of side b they use (either grab or attack) Shaku/Hado will beat them out (I think it beats the grab variation of it). Hard up tilt will beat Side B, Tatsu will not, Shoryu timed well can also beat it out. Ledge trump double jump BAir can probably catch them. If they have banana be careful of your approaches, they don't necessarily need to trip you in order to combo with it. Offstage be careful with Tatsu or Hado usage as depending on how they throw it they can mess both forms of recovery. If they have banana at ledge just drop ledge jump NAir. They usually expect a roll or neutral getup. Getup attack will not grab banana. FTilt is useful in this MU as is roundhouse. If you have banana in hand and are spacing then out with projectiles just be careful. Your tools are limited since you'll only have projectiles, Tatsu, Focus, and Shoryu. They'll likely pressure you to throw banana and then grab it back. Basically be mindful of banana and hold on to it/prevent Diddy from getting it. They have a plethora of options to get it back or force its usage whereas you'll be limited so be mindful of that. Neutral wise use roundhouse, FTilt, and your projectiles. Their burst options can be overwhelming if you're not careful and they can combo you for a while. I haven't found any DI/SDI that's helpful for getting out of combos atm. You can pick up banana with just about any tilt (including collarbone) and aerial so if they throw it out just tilt or throw an aerial to grab it. As far as kill power is concerned its small, most setups are DTilts and banana setups but they're limited on how long they can hold a smash attack so its always a weak variation of the move. Fair is really good for edge guarding and banana into FAir can force you out of Focus.

Donkey Kong
To the top of the page

From Bean!:

This matchup may seem like a one and done, bing bang boom sort of thing but it isn’t. A good DK is gonna abuse their disjoints and out range the ever living %$&@ out of us. So don’t underestimate this matchup. Your best bet is forcing him to approach, since all of his approach options are very committal besides his bair. Once DK secures a grab you’re walking away with at least 35-45 on average, and may even lose a stock. So whatever laggy move you do better be worth it. Coil Tatsu trumping DK’s recovery by not immediately snapping to ledge but hanging there for a while cripples him. (As in not immediately pressing down when tatsuing the ledge to stall next to the stage for a while).

KO moves:

Shoryuken, or Medium Tatsu. He’s quite chunky so killing with heavy tatsu should be reserved for near the ledge interactions.

Ledge Trapping DK

DK has quite a few super armor gimmick moves like Giant Punch and Headbutt, so if you get too close for comfort you’re gonna get whacked. Most likely, the DK player will do a neutral getup since going in the air from ledge as DK is suicide, especially against us. To ledge trap him, stay around 1 1/2 roll distances away and walk back and forth with the occasional sliding tilt or pivot ftilt to try and catch him lacking. Make sure you do not overextend, safe spacing is very important.

DK’s kill options on us

DK can go offstage and down b us for free since the hitbox is disjointed and quite good for murdering recoveries. His dair, fair, down b, and side b spike, so watch out. But you’ll probably die to a bair, fsmash, ftilt smack due to a ledge poke, or a cargo throw of some sort.

Free Punishes

DK’s in the air? Free HUTilt. DK’s in shield? Free HUTilt focus or tomahawk grab if you know he’s not gonna do anything. The rest should be common sense.

How to DI out of his combos

DK is most likely conditioning you to DI down and out of his combos since he’s probably doing upthrow nair whatever move. Be aware of your DI, because if you DI the same way, he has traps for that, like the iconic dash attack to bairs to up b. Stay aware of your own DI and Do. Not. Try. To. Style. Offstage.

Dr. Mario
To the top of the page

From mo!:

Despite what the metagame tells you, fighting a good Doc is not an easy MU. Doc is essentially Mario but he's slower and hits like a truck.

The basics: Doc has a very good neutral game with pills. They're a slow, bouncy projectile that is easy to confirm into. The easiest thing to do would be to jump over it, but this puts you at risk for eating a kick to the face. Doc's nair is about the same as Mario's, so watch out for it. Fair doesn't spike but it hits like a truck. Up air is a good combo tool. Doc's jump punch is a good oos option, so be very careful shield poking. It kills at around 100-120%. Dr. Tornado is a very dangerous move in this MU. It's a multihit doc can combo into and kills offstage at ~70%. Good DI is very useful in this MU.

Kills: Doc is pretty average weight so getting a kill is not terribly hard. Up air > tsrk will do it at ~60%. Air tatsu also helps with Ryu. Due to his....questionable recovery, you can abuse the hell out of Doc offstage. Landing a dair or even a fair or nair will likely do it for him, unless he has an extra jump. You can also use down smash on ledge. Ledgetrapping doc is key. To recover against Doc is pretty simple. Make sure to avoid dair and cape. Mix it up!

Which shoto should I use? Ken can trip Doc up with his speed and Ryu can wall him out so either is fine for this MU.

From Bill Bill Bill:

Doc can also mix up Up Smash and Doc Jump Punch (Up-B) as an OoS kill option. Up Smash is a DI mixup and I think Behind and Down from Doc is the best DI? Jump punch sends you Forward and Up so if you do the DI for Up Smash, you'll die way earlier.

Doc also can't really abuse his grab except for killing, so DI out if he does Dthrow since he can probably only do an Uair as a true confirm. Fair can hit if he reads an airdodge or you don't do anything to counter it. Fair is incredibly strong too, don't get hit by it.

Don't corner Doc too much as a Back Throw will almost certainly kill (at around 120 or less with rage). I think its like #3 in strongest back throws.

Duck Hunt
To the top of the page

Frisbee beats light Hado. Med/Heavy Hado beat frisbee. If the frisbee hits a hitbox and a hurtbox at the same time, it will be deflected away. If it hits a hurtbox it will put you in hitlag/hitstun.

Hitting sheriff keeps him out for longer. They cannot use Down B until the sheriff goes away.

Falco
To the top of the page

From SHORYUKEN:

Hold shield against his aerials because fair is very tricky. Until you get the feel of it, don’t use focus basically at all - At least don’t commit to it, The only aerial it deals with is uair and bair but you’ll get fair and naired for days. Don’t worry about lasers and don’t let them force you to approach, the damage is so small as to almost not matter. Shaku is good as long as you don’t get jumped or are far enough away not to worry about reflect. He’s really light so it doesn’t take much to get him at kill %, just be patient. For the love of god don’t commit hard to offstage especially deep offstage edgeguards; hovering near the ledge is ok as long as you don’t get clipped by side b. Also at low percent he might fall to the ground fast enough to make HDTilt conversions untrue.

From mo!:

Like SHORYUKEN said, Falco is a very patient MU. Having a good tech game is good since Falco can tech chase easier with phantasm now. Falco is also in this really weird area where he's a floaty-fastfaller. Don't chase him in the air, that's bait. Wait for him to approach instead.

As said before, getting Falco to kill % isn't a big deal. You can kill him with Ken tsrk or Ryu tatsu rather easily.

The biggest things to watch out for in this MU is 1. Disadvantage. Falco is pretty much all advantage (lol) so getting out of this can be tough. 2. Offstage. Recovery mixups will be put to the test, also don't commit to this lol.

From Revbecca:

This is somewhat common but if you didn't know you can DI out of the up throw and back throw laser. If the Falco's extremely committal you can punish their follow up but don't stay in the air for too long because, yknow, Falco. You can usually DI/SDI up throw left or right, back throw down

Fox
To the top of the page

From mo!:

General stuff: Fox is very fast, but also very light. He will often maintain neutral or advantage with fastfall nair. Be careful in close encounters as Fox can rack up damage faster than a bad marriage. Fox's setback is having maybe 2 or 3 reliable kill confirms. What you should primarily look out for is up smash and up throw > up air. Killing Fox is not hard. He's light as a feather so medium tatsu or a raw tsrk will do it for him. Getting him to kill % is the challenge since he is very fast and can dogpile you very easily with his aerials. Fox also has a reliable jab lock tech chase that combos into down smash. Watch out for that. Tech rolling is important.

Specials: Blaster is really not an issue in this MU, in my opinion. If you're close enough, abuse the endlag. Fox Illusion is a reading challenge, since Fox can change the amount of startup, but once you adapt to the pattern, it won't be too much of an issue. You can also tatsu or shaku him out of it (recommended for Ryu) Fire Fox is his primary recovery option. While it's a pretty okay move, it's extremely predictable. Spike him offstage if you can. Reflector is the biggest issue in his kit. Bait it out with hado and attack afterwards.

Which shoto? Either works!! Personally I use Ken but Ryu is just as fine.

From Bill Bill Bill:

Do. Not. Tatsu. As. Ken. Ever. Actually, light tatsu may still serve its use here, its just that Fox's weight and fast falling properties may not knock him down when you expect him to. Also, the only way you'd manage to even hit a light tatsu is with a confirm, but you should probably go for something better like CK or something. Be prepared to tech often as Fox LOVES dragdown fair when will create a tech situation 80% of the time. Also, Fox's nair is absurdly good as a kill setup. I think of it as a better version of Ken's nair and it connects very well with upsmash for a kill. I think it can also create a tech chase at higher percents? Not sure. Hado is useful since they have no choice but to jump, shield or EVEN BETTER, reflect. Use slow hado as Ken.

Ganondorf
To the top of the page

From ImBad:

Ganon has a 50/50 on both shotos from flame choke if you tech away, in place, or miss your tech Ganon can dtilt you. If you tech in he can dash attack you.

From JMU notes made by General Yi:

Neutral Shoto Advantage Shoto Disadvantage Stage Selection
 * Shotos have fireballs to pester Ganon with at a distance, allowing them to wrack up damage and force an approach.
 * Ganon will utilize his longer-reaching attacks in the matchup, such as properly spaced nair and downtilt. Even his jab has a solid range to it and will be used to prod at a distance.
 * Ganon’s nair works best as an air-to-air attack due to its long range and double-hit.
 * Ganon’s anti-air game is lacking, so he’ll prioritize air-to-air combat when possible.
 * With both shotos and Ganon being punish-heavy characters, the tempo of the match will revolve around who can maintain a stock and percentage lead.
 * Ganon is one of the few characters in the game that shotos are unable to poke when he hangs from ledge.
 * Ken can force himself into an advantage state using tatsu to punish a whiffed move of Ganon’s, but be wary that it will leave him wide open should the Ganon be ready for it.
 * Wizard’s Kick (Ganon’s downB) will pass through shaku and all forms of Ken’s hado.
 * Wizard’s Kick will be stopped by a fresh heavy hado from Ryu. This will no longer work after hado has been staled with three uses on hit/on shield (and remember that hado/shaku share the same staling queue).
 * Shotos are at -19 frame advantage when tech-rolling in after Flame Choke (Ganon side-b).
 * Focus isn’t realistically strong enough to absorb Ganon’s fsmash or upsmash, do not try tanking these.
 * While ledgetrapping Ganon, be mindful of flame choke from ledge as a quick option that will beat light tilts and focus.
 * Ganon’s OOS options consist of Dark Dive (up-b) as a command grab and fair if a shoto is pressuring with downtilts.
 * While Ryu can pepper Ganon with hado and shaku at a safe distance, Ken is able to keep Ganon in a disadvantage state longer due to his long combo strings and Ganon’s weak OOS options.
 * Shotos do better at maintaining a horizontal advantage state rather than keeping Ganon above them.
 * A well-timed nair can gimp Ganon off stage fairly easily, so long as shotos bear in mind Ganon’s ability to retalitate using upair or Dark Dive.
 * The end of Dark Dive has a hitbox, so be wary of it sharking above the ledge when ledgetrapping Ganon.
 * Dark Dive will electrify you four times before launching you, and will not refresh Ganon’s double jump if it has already been used.
 * Shotos can utilize Rockcrocking (punishing the end-lag of Dark Dive by teching off the stage wall after being launched) to press the off-stage disadvantage state on Ganon.
 * The Shotos’ best Rockcrock tool is fair, though in some situations you can also use dair for a spike, and the best stages to use this on are Kalos and the Yoshi stages due to their straight sides.
 * Using tatsu to ledge is a free invitation for Ganon to spike you with dair, recover low when possible.
 * Ganon will watch your DI after he’s used down-throw and can use nair, dash attack, up air, rar bair, or even downsmash depending on if/when you use an air dodge or jump.
 * Tech flame choke by either reacting to the explosion of Ganon’s fist or the vibration of your controller, though bear in mind that still leaves you in an unfavorable state due to the option-select of teching in place, rolling, or choosing not to tech at all.
 * Due to shotos’ poor roll distance, tech rolling away from flame choke can still result in you getting hit by Ganon’s downtilt.
 * The list of Ganon’s options after flame choke are as follows:
 * Tech-roll behind: bair, turn-around upsmash (possible chance to shield this)
 * Tech in place/get-up attack/normal getup: dair
 * Tech-roll away: Another flame choke, Wizard’s Kick, downtilt (sometimes)
 * Ganon can auto-cancel Wizard’s Kick by flying off the ledge with it towards the very end of the move for a quick ledgetrapping movement option.
 * Shotos are forced into a 50/50 situation when grabbed by flame choke in the air onto a platform: normal get-up/get-up attack is beaten with a dair, while rolling will be hit by an upsmash.
 * Ganon’s late dash attack into upair or Dark Dive will be true at low to mid percents.
 * Platforms can allow Ganon to maneuver around fireballs, bypass ledgetrapping options, and set up 50/50s with aerial flame choke, so consider stages like Battlefield and Lylat only if you’re confident in being able to utilize platforms to your advantage as well.
 * Lylat in particular is a rough stage to fight Ganon on due to the low height of the platforms allowing him to cover their entire length with fsmash and upsmash.
 * A smaller stage like Smashville works in favor for both shotos and Ganon since there’s literally less room for error, but this does mean less room to pressure with fireballs for shotos.
 * Final Destination can work well for the shotos due to them being able to control the stage and air space at a distance while Ganon is forced to maneuver with limited options.
 * With Town & City’s moving platforms, shotos are able to benefit from long range stage control when the platforms are gone, and their height when present keeps them relatively safe from some of Ganon’s tools.
 * Bear in mind that any stage with a large width, like Town & City or Pokémon Stadium 2, will also allow Ganon to run away and stay out of fireball range longer when he has the percent/stock lead.
 * Pokémon Stadium 2’s length benefits fireball play, and the platforms work well for both shotos a
 * Kalos, despite having high walls that make rockcrocking Ganon easier, is the worst stage in this matchup due to how high the ceiling is and the side-platforms working better for Ganon’s defensive options than shotos’ offensive ones.
 * Good for shotos: Final Destination
 * Neutral for shotos: Smashville, Yoshi’s Story, Battlefield, Town & City, Pokémon Stadium 2
 * Bad for shotos: Kalos, Lylat

Greninja
To the top of the page

From JJDJ:

so Greninja is a very fast character with likely the best overall mobility stats in the game. He is exceptionally good at controlling space and he can sometimes be tricky to catch, but as long as you take advantage of his weaknesses, this matchup is still winnable

Because of his extremely terrible aggressive out of shield options, being able to get in against greninja, as well as invalidate his approaches, are key points to this matchup.

As for general knowledge stuff

-heavy uptilt, light ftilt and ryu upair 2 can all beat out greninja nair if properly spaced, but are still fairly high commitment options. if you miss, you’re probably gonna take 30-40% from a whiff punish so use them sparingly -hado and shaku clank with water shuriken, but for some reason uncharged shuriken can low profile fireballs so you can damage trade with heavy hadouken if they’re camping you out on the ground -In my opinion, Ryu has an easier time in the matchup than Ken since Ryu is able to cover landings with his controllable fireball speeds more easily than Ken and punish jump ins with upair and uptilt, as well as not have the problem of certain setups not working on him due to his size and good defensive options

often greninja mains like to play slow and patient and wait for a punish window. whenever Greninja is camping you out in the corner, try to avoid giving overcommiting and giving up stage control. instead, setup shaku or hado whenever safe and pressure him into the corner with low commitment tilts and aerials. many greninja players like to avoid pressure with defensive options, so whenever you’re pressuring greninja in the corner, expect them to choose a non-aggressive option such as jumping or rolling, and punish according to their most used option. (good options for punishing jumps would be ryu upair or light uptilt, and for covering rolls, use dtilt.)

Whenever greninja wins neutral, getting out of disadvantage can be very difficult. avoid mashing focus out of hitstun since the vast majority of greninja’s moves are able to bypass focus armor. try to mix up landings with either b-reverse focus, fastfall nair, or retreating to ledge. Whenever Greninja gets you offstage, you have to stay extremely aware of your positioning relative to the greninja since he can edgeguard shotos for free. avoid using raw tatsu to ledge other than for a mixup, and always make sure to properly space shoryu on recovery. even if you barely miss the ledge sweetspot, he can cheese you with hydro pump and still maintain stage control if he misses. Use hado as a stalling option if the Greninja goes offstage after you, and sometimes tatsuing gren bair can trade so that can be a viable option too.

So basically dont make your landings/ recoveries really predictable and you should be fine


 * DI dtilt>upsmash directly away on hit and the sweetspot will usually miss if you react quick enough
 * Always be ready for random techchase scenarios off of dragdown upair and up-angled ftilt
 * dont mash high commitment options in his face cus you’re most likely gonna eat a dash attack for it
 * Dash attack on shield is -14, so you can punish it with pretty much anything other than rising nair, since he can occasionally low profile with it
 * dont challenge greninja fair’s hitbox. ever.
 * abuse his mediocre frame data whenever you get him in the corner, and try punish the player’s favorite defensive options.

Hero
To the top of the page

RNG go brrrr.

From Bean!:

Hero Neutral:

Hero’s neutral state is usually initiated with him immediately going to a side of the stage and opening down b, doing fast neutral b, or ranged side b to get some space before using the down b command select. once hero opens up their down b, you’re stuck into a cycle with them. approaching means you have to be ready to counter their menu option, if that’s even possible, staying away means you have to be willing to get hit, and running or jumping in just lets him hit you away to reset neutral. the most important thing to remember in this matchup is patience, and to not run directly in on the hero.

Hero’s Advantage:

Absolutely MONSTEROUS. Once hero puts us in disadvantage we’re staying there for a while. Wasting MP means nothing to him because all he has to do is spam aerials and if they connect with your shield, he gets MP back, so its no committment for him. When stuck in disadvantage against hero, visualize a few different lines representing his burst menu options and normal special options. His ledge trapping is extremely vicious if you’re not thinking so stay aware of your own options as well as his to play this matchup corrrectly.

Hero’s Disadvantage:

Hero’s Disadvantage is having no MP and being off stage. We can expose this by letting him burn his entire menu of spells and other specials, then use an aerial or fireball to try and catch him off guard to secure a grab that could possibly be a game ender. COIL Side B works excellently in this matchup, and not instantly clicking to the ledge completely screws over Hero’s up b recovery.

Dealing with Down B:

I know what you’re thinking, “his down b takes up the whole stage and if I don’t approach he gets buffed up and I die at -18,765%!” The key here is to be pseudo aggressive. you’re trying to mask your approach and your real gameplan, because once the hero catches on, consider it curtains. Each of his long range down b projectiles: Bang, Kaboom, Sizzle, Sizz, Whack, Magic Burst can be dealt with accordingly. Stay out of the range of Kaboom, or at least above its suction hitbox, and you’re a-okay. hero has quite a fast, large nair so challenging his menu up close will most likely get you hit by nair or fair.

Dealing with Roided Up Hero:

So lets say you made a serious mistake and tried to turtle against Hero. He’s got Accelerattle, Oomph, Psyche Up, and invincibility from Hocus Pocus. What are you supposed to do? Wait it out, or let him tap your shield to wear it off VERY CAREFULLY. Hero has some ridiculous shield break potential, and the buffs only make them even more insane. Wait him out, and when you’re ready, start closing the gap to deal with him face to face. Ideal Character, Strands, and Playstyle:

I highly reccomend Ryu for this matchup. He’s got a good enough projectile to play a semi-decent game of keep away against Hero. But mainly I choose Ryu since he’s my favorite his damage output is solid, consistent, and doesn’t inherently make you want to fish for fancy stuff. I reccomend playing simplistic, pseudo aggressive, and tricky. Keep your movement ambiguous and keep the hero guessing with B Reverse focus and all sorts of movement mixups you can throw in.

Dealing with Bounce:

Bounce does affect our neutral, but it doesn’t destroy it. Instead of relying on fireball to get your chip damage, you can use aerials and sliding tilts to catch the Hero off guard to inflict decent damage with tatsu, or if you cat h him at higher percents a kill with dtilt shoryu.

Hero’s Kill Moves on Us:

Hero can kill us the same amount of ways you can skin a mongoose, which is infinite but if you’re a busy man its around 37. All his smash attacks are volatile BEEG no no zones, if you find yourself dancing around his smash attack range, death shouldn’t be a surprising outcome in that scenario. It helps to pretend that Hero is a bomb that’s armed and ready to explode, and poking, agitating, and forcing him to come over is the only way to keep him from going Kaboom at any given time.

TL;DR: Play Ryu, Pseudo Aggressive, Mysterious Playstyle, Keep it simple, Heavy focus on Ledge Trapping, Heavy focus on mixing up landing, ledge options, OoS options, and options out of hitstun. DO. NOT. NAIR. IN

From Tytaneum:

magic burst has trash priorty. try to hit hero at the beginning of the move where the radius isnt that big. if you cant, just fireball him. all projectiles go straight through. if hero has oomph and / or psyche up, do not let him shield break you. heres a few ways hero can delete your shield: https://twitter.com/aperfectcreatio/status/1237549851698581504?s=21

Ice Climbers
To the top of the page

From Lernonad:

Blizzwall is a pain. You have to preemptively jump over it to air-to-air it from above. But if they got a platform to hide under then GGs. If you shield blizzwall I guess I’d say best bet is abuse the fact that you get a fully intangible roll after 11 hits on shield and if you’re close roll behind and dtilt. -\(‘_’)/-

They got ToDs for days. Don't get hit by blizzwall or grab and you're all good. Focus doesn't work if Nana is around.

Down Throw breaks shields so you can use it to grab and throw Popo and disable Nana for a little bit. Up Throw has an external hitbox so if Nana is not shielding, use this to knock her away. Then you can go edge guard Nana. Ken's Back Throw has a long roll before throwing the opponent. This is good for separating the two.

This matchup is even to slight winning for Ken until the ICs player decides to camp. Then, it is losing.

Ike
To the top of the page

From Lernonad:

Neutral
Because of Ike's range, releasing shield trying to parry and doing tilts can easily be countered by out spacing us then using dtilt which can combo and kill confirm, so try parrying with caution. The only other option that is good is anti-airing, or because of his range, air-to-airing. You can do so with both Ken and Ryu by doing full hop immediate nair, fair, or short hop buffered uair, which then you can combo off of. If he sees that you are consistently going for full hop air-to-airs he will start doing short hop reverse up air, which you can just beat by doing short hop buffered aerial then combo or by doing a grounded anti-air. To do this you have to jump at the same time Ike does. You can practice by turning the CPU to jump in training mode. Or, if you have the training mod pack, set the CPU to do falling NAir. You should mostly be doing these in neutral. If you get caught in shield you gotta mixup what you do. You can parry and do a tilt but it might not reach. Releasing shield into tilt will not work, so keep in mind that you can also jump OOS or after a parry and do an aerial.

Advantage
When juggling Ike he can double jump out or air dodge through. He might also try using side b to try and go to ledge. When going to ledge Ike can do side b to recover high and get to center stage or use up b to get to ledge. To counter side b you can do bair to hit him or hado to force him to go lower. If you hit him out of side b then he is forced to go to ledge with up b. To counter up b you have to throw a hitbox when Ike throws his sword. By the time Ike rises the hitbox will be out. Dsmash is easiest to counter up b. When Ike is at ledge there aren't a lot of Ike specific mixups. I've only seen drop off double jump side b. Be careful when attacking his shield since his up b has armor and has good knockback to kill at around 100%. Shotos can counter with doing a tilt string canceled to focus to tank the Up B then dash cancel out of the way and punish. If he doesn't Up B then dash cancel away before he reacts and grabs.

Disadvantage
If you are being juggled you can jump out as Ike is about to uair, then you have to fast fall neutral air dodge to get past up air again and get below Ike. If you do get below Ike via this then you can get a chance to hit him as he lands, but shotos add another option of FADC. It works the same as air dodge most of the time. If you're going to ledge from below Ike has DAir and eruption. Once on ledge NAir, DTilt, and DSmash can hit shoto's ledge hang. If he is spamming NAir then aair-to-air with a ledge jump aerial. Its the same timing from ledge as it is anywhere else.

Incineroar
To the top of the page

https://twitter.com/AMegaLance/status/1209617492408061952?s=20&t=hjOqIyRGrmk-6pInbBIWcw

From Bill Bill Bill:

Incin's down smash is not as bad as K. Rool's. Bait Down-B as much as possible, especially when playing Ken. True tatsu is actually useful here for this reason if they mash OR/and don't know how to fight the shotos. Don't spam Hadokens/Shakus unless off of a confirm/its very unexpected. Be mindful of Dtilt. Its an amazing combo starter for Inci and a good Inci will abuse the hell out of it. Jumping is good here and there since Inci has very few moves that are very strong in the air (if you're above him) you can avoid his attacks and maybe start a combo or something. Command grab only works if you play dumb and they catch on. Force them to use their revenge on something else, like a dtilt. How? Trivago. Or just grab them. Normal grab will still do like 30+% with Revenge depending on their throw so you should be careful with your shield. Keep your distance, especially if you're Ken If you do untrue combos and strings the first hit of the untrue part (like lets say after a Heavy Tatsu if you DARE use that move) should be weak, like weak Utilt or Dtilt. Or just don't do a move and see what they do after and condition them to use a punishable move, especially Revenge!!!

From JJDJ:

I'm pretty sure Incin only counters the first hit [Shakunetsu]. I've played matches vs Incin where they tried to counter slow Shaku and got punished for it by the ending hits of the same fireball.

From SHORYUKEN:

Shaku only triggers a tiny bit of revenge. Jumping is good but it can get Whipped if they start getting the read on you

From MALASA:

Zoning with Ken Hado is dangerous because of Revenge. So you just have to play super patient, pretty sure Ryu is much more comfortable in this mu. The command grab is also dumb; it will catch falling Nair. One hadoken makes [Revenge] do at least 50 percent.

Inkling
To the top of the page

Ken and Ryu die to Booyah at 119-147

From Lernonad:

Neutral: Inkling plays by using bair which is safe on shield and mixing up with full hop landing bair, shorthop landing bair, rising bair, and rising or landing nair. Then they continue pressure with another aerial, tilt, or grab. Best thing to do is read what watch what they do after hitting your shield the first time and read that with the proper oos option. Parrying isn’t the best since a perfectly landed bair is still safe on parry. The tilts are not safe on shield but short ranged attacks won’t hit after inkling uses one on shield. If they try to hit your shield with landing bair you can meet them with an anti air. They also use bomb to pressure you to shield to get a grab or jump to anti air.

Advantage: Inkling can wall jump and bair ledge to hit you if you stand directly on ledge. They can also use side b to stall their recovery or boost their horizontal recovery. As for OOS options nair is fast but since our shield strings do decent push back it shouldn’t hit.

Disadvantage: You gotta save your double jump and mix up going high or low. Inkling edgeguards are too good. And don’t spam double jump out of hitstun when they do up throw. As for beating ledge traps go to 18:05 in IzAw's Art of Inkling and watch til the end.

Isabelle
To the top of the page

You can special cancel off LLoid trap. DSmash and FAir break it.

Jigglypuff
To the top of the page

Anti-air and air-to-air her.

Joker
To the top of the page

From Bill Bill Bill:

Anyway, one thing I realized about joker is that most of his get off me tools have some startup, except for rebel's guard, which has counters. Dont immediately jump if he guns you down off stage. Grab often since pummel and grab takes away a lot of the rebels gauge if he has arsene.

From Renin:

Down Tilt on Rebel's Guard is super safe because you can react on hit into Focus Attack. and if Joker lets go immediately, Focus Attack will not get hit out on cancel. and will get hit by Focus Attack 1 if they don't shield fast enough by not Rebel's Guarding fast enough. even on shield is it nice due to being able to FADC on hit. if Joker holds Rebel's Guard longer, he can get FA3'd or just straight up punished for endlag.

Kazuya
To the top of the page

From Bean!:

Ryu can be a good defender in this matchup but he needs to hold midrange down well as well as mixup his fireball placements bc Kazuya crouch dash shenanigans. Its a safe bet to try and fake out the kazuya player using kara shaku/hado since the threat of a charged dsmash or a kara will keep them somewhat at bay. If they don’t respect that then mix up your grounded spacing with backdashes to keep yourself at least 1 roll distance away at all times. You’ll be able to react to everything he does and punish from this range with relative ease.

YOUR BEST FRIEND VS A RUSHING KAZUYA IS HDTILT/LFTILT

at least from what i’ve seen when playing vendetta, a well spaced backdash hdtilt or sliding hdtilt will mean the difference between life and death. keep your spacing sharp.

NEUTRAL VS KAZUYA (RYU)

neutral vs kazuya isn’t super long range and it isn’t close range either. like i mentioned previously ryu is able to be a somewhat decent midrange defender with proper fireball placements, mixups, and spacing. But you can try to play neutral against kazuya from further away. just know that every second of endlag you’re in. he’s only getting closer.

HOW TO MAKE KAZUYA HURT (RYU)

kaz’s fastest options in the air are his upair which is f4, and while its not the fastest, down b with rage and without will be able to win scrambles if you try to frametrap him with nair. once he’s in rage he becomes invuln on down b on frame 1-3, and from frames 4-13 he has super armor so don’t go trying too frame trap happy on him later. However, pre rage percents are free for frametraps as his neutral airdodge is frame 3. So for ryu, things like uptilt > nair aren’t impossible to loop before kaz gets rage. He can also frame trap using things like uptilt > hdtilt for a little bit more damage. the uptilt > dsmash frametrap will work too if they aren’t buffering neutral airdodge.

HOW TO KILL KAZUYA (RYU)

ryu can kill kazuya in all sorts of ways but mainly you’re gonna want to avoid light jab. as that can be tanked by fsmashes, rage drives, and just avoided by his CD. confirming off of spaced hdtilts in this matchup seems to be crucial, and landing kill confirms off of spaced lftilt will also be very important. Controlling space and ensuring that you are the one forcing setplay on kazuya and not the other way around is essential. ^ examples of kills:

just try to minimalize the amount of light damage you do as tough guy can tank it and you’ll not have a great time
 * hdtilt xx h.tatsu
 * hdtilt xx m.tatsu (mixup)
 * hdtilt > read escape option > ldtiltx1 xx h.dp
 * lftilt > bair
 * lftilt > dair
 * lftilt > upair1 xx dp
 * lftilt > read escape option > ptilt/ldtilt xx dp

Ken
To the top of the page

Optimal Shoryuken DI by Hades: https://twitter.com/HadesSSB/status/1135684783365709824?s=20

King K. Rool
To the top of the page

From Sydän:

Important thing to remember is that Kannonball goes through Shakunetsu but clanks with Hadouken. I'd recommend zoning using Hadouken over Shakunetsu and reserving that for hover combos and alike.

From Bill Bill Bill:

Crown loses its hitbox after it clangs with a projectile (or any hitbox, really) so if you hit the crown when its coming toward you with a projectile, you may have enough time to shield it on its way back. Also, this may already be common sense by now, but if the krool does falling nair alot, you should probably hold shield until after he does his next move after it, thats what most krools do. Be mindful of grab, tho.

From Rolo35_: https://twitter.com/Rolo35_/status/1312178235292049410

King Dedede
To the top of the page

From Bill Bill Bill:

Slow projectiles from far/mid range. Especially shaku. Dedede has really bad airspeed and gordo just gets reflected if they get greedy. Honestly, just be very patient, even with ken. Play their game and edge trap them with the edgeguard with no brain power using shaku. Since hes so big and heavy, dsmash will combo into everything and deal huge damage, take advantage of that. Only problem is killing. Tatsu is reliable if theyre trapped at ledge/commit to a laggy move, but is also very unsafe and hard to land since most ddd's play lame when theyre losing. You can try and approach to land a dp or a setup to it, but its risky. You might as well wait for them to approach you since ryu punishes approacing super well. If they approach with nair, parry it and its gg's. Be mindful of bair since they can space it out and punish. Get the hell out of ddd's up air range asap, you dont always have to approach when youre up in the air and in disadvantage. Its a very annoying move because you basically have to predict which hitbox youre gonna get hit by and what di youre gonna have to use. Its robs up air but more DIable ish. Dont ledgeroll if theyre trapping you, thats what they want you to do. Jump or normal getup and attack with something quick (if the gordo isnt super close to you already). Dont stay too long on ledge, they can use dash attack and get an early kill. One thing to add: play ken. Zoning is very hard with ryu because inhale can just spit shaku and hado back at ya. Even if you use it for edgeguarding or ledge trapping, it isnt really useful there since ddd has a decent recovery that we cant really challenge. The multiple jumps ddd has is something to keep an eye out for in neutral. They can stall in the air waiting for you to challenge them or predict them falling. Best not to challenge it unless youre ballsy as hell. Also, avoid gordo, dont focus it especially if youre close to ddd. The hitlag gordo has plus the singular hit it deals means it leaves you wide open to an usmash or dmash or anything ddd has. One thing ddd struggles with is pressure, which is why ken imo is better here. Heavy tatsu at mid% might leave them open to dtilt combos which you can use since they dont exactly have a get off me tool. Hado here is good for chip damage and reflecting gordo from a distance. If you play ryu, resist the urge to shaku in neutral or ledgeguarding. Do hado instead. Dtilt works wonders here for ledge trapping but be mindful of drop ledge up air. You can shield that and dsmash him away to restart his disadvantage (when he loses ledge invincibility)

From Lernonad:

Neutral So dealing with gordo in neutral is easy to deal with if done correctly. Don’t shield for a long time try and shield as the gordo is about to hit. And don’t shield if the ddd is close to you they can grab. You can hit the gordo with hado or hutilt. Those seemed most reliable. As for nair if you don’t parry then you gotta jump or shoryu or else dtilt will hit you or you can just hutilt or rh

Disadvantage Read above post by Bill Bill Bill

Advantage There is a lot of variety for combo game since he’s super big and you can try and start your combo by hitting gordo into ddd. You can easily hit him if he ledge stalls with hdtilt if spaced right.

Kirby
To the top of the page

Vendetta on how to not get succed: https://twitter.com/Vendetta_FGC/status/1409275969920245762?s=20&t=OjY8wg4EQ6wAq8_tN7_mPw

From Bean!:

Going Ken for this matchup is suicide unless you plan on out spacing and out disjointing the kirby. I’ve had a lot of experience with this matchup and learned it the hard way. Most common strand is grab loops with fthrow and dair, these can kill you instantly due to how much aerial space they take up, so Ken is not the wave for this matchup. Kirby’s worst weakness is projectiles. If the kirby player has more than 1 braincell they will not eat our fireballs and instead crouch under them, which is a free sliding tilt/aerial/combo starter/kill move. Ryu for this matchup all the way. If he absorbs you, his shaku is going to be a lot more annoying than ours. If he hits you with dtilt at high percent mash outwards and press shield. Most likely they’ll try for a trip confirm with angle down ftilt and try to get an fsmash like that too.

Recovery: kirby absolutely demolishes our recovery with stone and dair. To avoid this the most important thing is recovering horizontally and not vertically. Kirby can’t cover horizontal distance that fast, so FADCing and recovery mixups are essential. If therr was one rule I had for this matchup it would be NEVER LOSE STAGE CONTROL. Kirby’s recovery is quite bad and if they misspace it just throw a hadoken to keep them uncomfortable. Ledge trapping kirby for damage is essential since his options from ledge are awful.

Punishes. Kirby will most likely approach from the ground or if they catch you offguard approach from the air. Outspace him in the footsies game with light ftilt far, heavy down tilt, and down smash. You can not jab him, so keep all your confirms to dtilt or uptilt upair TSRK if you catch him jumping.

Ideal combos: Ryu is going into this matchup, so the classics like dtilt hdtilt tatsu and dtilt dtilt shoryu are key. Kirby’s don’t usually recover low, but if you condition them too you can get empty dtilt hdtilt at ledge into dair for a cheap kill. Kirby’s most common ledge options vary, but its usually a jump nair, drop down fair, or neutral getup in my experience.

TL;DR: Another no approaching matchup. Let him come to you and deal decent damage over an extended period of time. Losing stage control against a good Kirby is your entire stock, and jumping in at kirby is also a free stock. Take your time, and stand your ground.

Link
To the top of the page

From ImBad:

SHOTO LINK MU

GENERAL

Link is a heavier character weighing in at 104 units. Something about Link to remember is that he has an incredible fastfall speed. While he can zone he also has some very good normals since he has a sword. Expect to see links be a combination of zoning and rushdown. This mu is best for whatever shoto you are most comfortable with

LINK NEUTRAL

Links like to use boomerangs and bombs to control space. Keeping track of where both these things are will keep you from getting reversed when you do finally get in. Some things you can do about boomerang is shield (not advised since even at point blank it can be as good as -6,) hado, nair through it, and if you’re really feeling yourself you can just jab it to negate it. Another thing to keep in mind here is boomerang has less faf than hado, but 27 frames of startup. This is quite reactable. Remember, Link can angle his boomerang to catch jumps. This is where nair (especially ryus) shines at negating it. Link has a good set of aerial moves with most of them being safe on shield. If not through numbers then it is through spacing. Links generally will approach with nair or fair. Nair is able to be huptilted or roundhoused depending on the approach angle, and I do not recommend shielding it since it’s -2/-3 and in practice it's very hard to punish oos even if they don't make it perfect. In regards to fair you can either preemptively air to air or try to force them to mispace and huptilt it as well. If this hits your shield your best bet will be to reset to neutral due to it being a large disjoint that is -7. Fair 2 is able to be parried reliably since link cant mixup the timing of it. Link will occasionally approach with bair. Both hits of this move are -3 and it’s a very good combo move. If you get hit with it expect another one into an up b. Huptilt and roundhouse will once again be very good at stuffing this move out.

SHOTO NEUTRAL

Neural against link is going to mostly be you trying to get in on them or anti airing their approaches. Jumpins work if you can call out the boomerang throw. Be weary of his uptilt, it is frame 8 and a very disjointed anti air. Walk and parry his projectiles till you get to a point you can use a jump in to open him up. If he shields your jump in, cancel into focus to knowledge check him. Spin attack will always lose to focus on the ground. Wavebounce focus to avoid being grabbed. Tilt spam on shield will be safe since his oos options are too slow to get a real punish on us. hado/ shaku can be used to catch his landings. Don't forget to use your intangible ftilt to poke.

ADVANTAGE

Our advantage state is pretty standard against link. Push him to burn his resources since his recovery isnt all that stellar. When recovering, his upb will have a blind spot directly above him where he is able to be spiked. Watch for him to try and use nair to break out of juggles. When at ledge keep in mind that he can b reverse upb and send you off stage from a deceptively large range. Link does not have much to get off ledge for free. Watch for ledge drop dj fair. If he hangs on ledge for too long dsmash will hit him. I cannot overstate this enough. Make sure you know where boomerang is when you're in advantage state. End your strings early or with a grab to avoid getting reversaled. One other thing to keep in mind, Link will high profile dtilt spam after the first one. Time your dtilt so they connect. If you can't do this use a different combo starter

DISADVANTAGE

Try to use focus as mostly a movement tool. Link will generally use fair to break it if youre trying to use it as a combo breaker. This is even more scary at ledge since he can (and probably will) upb to break it as well. His sex kick is stupid good at edgegaurding us. Hone your tsrk skills for recovery if you don't want to continually get gimped by it. Bomb will also be very dangerous to us while recovering. MAKE SURE YOU MIX UP YOUR RECOVERY. Otherwise you’ll be dying much too early. If ink chooses to stay on stage make sure you snap to ledge. He can use dtilt and dmash to hit our hand through the stage.

Little Mac
To the top of the page

KO punch KOs shotos on FD at 26%.

From Kintuse:

Without many aerials options, they have to stay grounded and Ken has an answer for each of his approaches.

He has many great pokes and his frame data is amazing, but you can jump more liberally than Mac, just try not to jump on top of him too often. Use your jumps to space yourself and only double jump to get out of a sticky situation so you aren't caught in a string. If you are stuck in a u-tilt string, hold airdodge to buffer it on the faf so the next one whiffs. His utilt strings aren't a true combo and you don't have to repeatedly tap airdodge to get the timing right to get out.
 * Sliding F-tilts can be met with blocking into a simple punish
 * F-smash spam can be whiffed punished (if you block, don't try to punish it)
 * D-tilt spacing can be beaten by fading back and using hados
 * If they roll behind you after running a lot, keep spamming d-tilts to catch them

From Breck:

basic mac on shield overview


 * space a dtilt which is -13, this is good because it had decent range which got buffed, leads into his most damaging followup at mid percents being side b, and low profiles a ton of oos options, most notably basically every aerial oos
 * space a dfsmash because it's his most safe grounded option on shield at -12 (jab equals this and a charged neutral b that is released slightly early can be -5 or some shit, the former has little reward and the latter has 2 seconds of startup). this is good because this and up angled fsmash both have good pushback in shield, already have good range, and down angled specifically is a shield breaking move. this requires more of a call out on shield, aka ranged oos options like fair oos for shotos iirc. if he can space it well which he usually can it's borderline safe for the pushback alone

everything else is either extremely minus or puts him point blank, including all other tilts, unangled fsmash and down smash

This gets the brecc seal of approval but I'll add a bit more commentary on Utilt strings Utilt is -6 on hit at 0; It's like -1 if he gets the back hit though

And also airdodging behind him after you're hit by one Utilt at 0 and he buffers a second, due to airdodging landing lag he has 4 frames to punish that, and since you're in range of Ftilt, he'll use that, since it's a frame 4 move, so def airdodge away

At mid percents Utilts are outright true and he usually goes into an Up-B after 2 of them; but just Utilt Up-B stops working when it'd actually kill so lol

Utilt when it's positive on hit is one of Mac's best positions to be in because he can hard punish basically every option you pick if he knows what you'll do

The -6 part isn't actually useful knowledge for punishing it but you'll just know that he doesn't get anywhere close to a guaranteed followup; you're contesting a move that gets less negative as the stock goes on that's frame 4 and already -6, so that's a 10 frame gap, and there really isn't a percent range where you can hit him with Nair, either you fall to the ground too quickly and eat another Utilt or your Nair doesn't come out fast enough

So yeah airdodge away and hold shield

BF and TnC is good for mac PS2 nice for mac SV is okay for mac Kalos and Lylat is divisive for mac FD and YS bad for mac

Lucario
To the top of the page

From General Yi:

Lucario likes to stay mobile in the air due to their high air speed and will carry you along with nair and fair trains at low percents, similar to Majin Airlines. It's easier to get caught in these as Ryu due to the temptation to toss fireballs in neutral more often. I found keeping Lucario pinned down with close quarters strings was much more useful and it felt tricky to keep up pressure as Ryu. It became rather easy for my opponent to take advantage of Ryu strings sending them far away to camp out on a platform, charge aura sphere most of the way, and keep that in their pocket for any sudden brake-checks when I'd try and close the distance. Basically Ryu's defensive play is harder to utilize in this matchup, even when you're in the lead due to how aura works. You want higher mobility and more severe anti-airs as Ken rather than better fireballs.

Lucas
To the top of the page

From Charles:

hey everyone, non ryu/ken main here, I typed out a document on the Shotos vs Lucas MU, from the perspective of a lucas main. I typed it out with the help of General Yi and maybe you guys could gain something from it. keep in mind it is from the perspective of a lucas main, so it's more like me telling what lucas should do against the shotos rather than vice versa. if anyone has a question on the lucas MU, i can help them too if they'd like https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XY0j-OFWLgFrXFAyQ2jZqGF9FOtGo7a3dlj80uKelXc/edit?usp=sharing

From Bill Bill Bill:

depending on how the pk thunder was angled, it may be best to get hit by it AND NOT JUMP. if you can, shoryu into it and react to where it sends you... hopefully rng sends you on the side instead of sending you down without kb

Luigi
To the top of the page

From Skysong:

How to survive Luigi death combos!

Luigi's basic zero to death is down throw dair nair dair uair upb. You cant DI this combo because it doesnt send you into tumble, so to have any hope of escaping you're going to have to SDI. To sdi, you need to wiggle your left stick from diagonal up to diagonal down one direction. This has been a mechanic since smash 64 and is incredibly useful for escaping multihits so you should learn it either way. SDI can be read and reacted to by the luigi, but mixing up can help either way. SDI doesnt work for the down throw but it does for the rest of the moves. You can try to cross luigi up with SDI in to ruin the combo, and SDI in can also mess with up air into upb. However, make sure you also switch how you sdi every time you get grabbed so that the Luigi has to actively pay attention and put conscious effort into comboing you, as if you SDI the same direction every time, the combo is just playing dance dance revolution on your corpse. You can also change the direction mid combo to really throw them for a loop.

Also, dont use flick SDI! Its really bad and doesnt do anything. (Note from Lernonad: use this if you play on a box controller (Smashbox or arcade stick). You get better SDI because you are SDIing in one direction instead of two directions that then add up to one direction. Flick SDI is only possible on box controllers)

The combo doesnt have DI, but upb does, and it usually doesnt matter but DI directly away is the optimal DI for upb and will change the kill percent by 2-3.

Lastly, if the Luigi tries to style with fair>nair or the back end of up air strings, always sdi really hard away from them, as fair has much less control to follow the SDI.

Marcina (Marth & Lucina)
To the top of the page

From Lernonad:

Neutral: They play just like Ike where buffered aerials are not safe while landed aerials are safe. if you see them jump to try and do a landed aerial then anti air them before the attack comes out. If they land an aerial on your shield and you don't parry then wait out to see what they will do after the aerial. Their tilts will beat out jumps and shield grabs. The biggest thing to look out for is if they do a buffered aerial they can do another aerial before landing if full hopped and just do double jump aerial if short hopped. their shorthop fair and shorthop bair covers full hops and shorthops. Parrying benefits us a lot but doing it too often against a good player can get us punished by mixups. Finally, look out for shield breaker and mix up how you try to avoid it.

Advantage: Up b has frame 1 intangibility when done in the air so good luck with the long untrue strings. Ledge trapping is pretty easy since they cant do buffered attacks off of ledge.

Disadvantage: Might want to try doing the up air true shoryu to beat counter off stage. Be careful using focus to stop juggling they can do multiple aerials in one jump. Dtilt and Dsmash can hit ledge stalls. If they do down throw you want to DI behind them to avoid the follow up aerial.

Mario
To the top of the page

Mega Man
To the top of the page

Meta Knight
To the top of the page

Mewtwo
To the top of the page

Mii Brawler
To the top of the page

Mii Gunner
To the top of the page

Mii Swordfighter
To the top of the page

Min Min
To the top of the page

Mr. Game & Watch
To the top of the page

Ness
To the top of the page

Olimar
To the top of the page

Pac-Man
To the top of the page

Palutena
To the top of the page

Peach
To the top of the page

Pichu
To the top of the page

Pikachu
To the top of the page

Piranha Plant
To the top of the page

Pit
To the top of the page

Pokemon Trainer
To the top of the page

Ridley
To the top of the page

R.O.B.
To the top of the page

Robin
To the top of the page

Rosalina & Luma
To the top of the page

Roy
To the top of the page

From Mattias145 (summarized):

beats the armor of Up B. So it can be used as a callout. is not safe against Up B but is up to the 4th stale. If you block Up B you can jump OOS to then land on top of Roy with an aerial combo starter like. If there is a platform you can jump to that platform as well and either land on it or shark it and be able to punish Roy.

Ryu
To the top of the page

Samus
To the top of the page

Sephiroth
To the top of the page

Sheik
To the top of the page

Shulk
To the top of the page

Snake
To the top of the page

Sonic
To the top of the page

Sora
To the top of the page

Steve
To the top of the page

Terry
To the top of the page

Toon Link
To the top of the page

Villager
To the top of the page

Wario
To the top of the page

Wii Fit Trainer
To the top of the page

Wolf
To the top of the page

Yoshi
To the top of the page

Young Link
To the top of the page

Zelda
To the top of the page

Zero Suit Samus
To the top of the page